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Relies upon credibility, but it's also about a narrative they sense. we lawyers before we go before juries and pick them we say always use your common sense and good judgment. and when you weave a web and tell a tale it becomes problematic. i think that's what happened here. his narrative of mr. smollett's didn't carry the day and the jury discerned something was amiss and they found him accountable. so that was the right result. >> before i go to that, what do you think of the strategy of his to kind of throw everything against the wall, muddy everybody. what did you think of his defensive st...

Apparently take his insulin with him. what do you make of the arguments the defense attorneys made against a high bail? >> it's unfortunate because these situations happen where the defense lawyers make arrangements to turn their clients in and it saves everyone some time and effort in terms of an arraignment like this. obviously we saw there appeared to be some confusion, at least from the defense perspective as to whether or not there was this agreement that had been reached. it seemed to me that what was most telling is how and where the crumbleys were ultimately apprehended. in a warehouse...

Independent decision. >> it's an independent decision. the defense attorneys are about preparing the case for trial, and with respect to that there are obviously confidences attached to conversations with their client, but the ultimate goal and objective from the defense perspective was to really pronounce a narrative that would resonate. the other issues and the side show shows that go along with it and whether he'll be a political pawn or not, that's just a separate, independent, and outside type of thing that attaches to this. the bottom line here is that they had a job to do, which was to ...

About how jurors interpret some of the testimony, because it's a social media influencer who had l livestreamed indithe video to jurors. he said before the shooting, rittenhouse seemed nervous and was chain smoking. would you expect those observations to resonate with jurors? >> you do, but they had a defendant then 17, now 18. it always depends how you interpret it. from a defense perspective, you'll argue three things. my client was in immediate fear of death, of serious bodily injury. number two, the force he used was appropriate and unfortunate based upon the threat. the defense will argue...

Affirmatively don't want to speak to that family. that further evidences that perhaps you don't want to speak to them because you did something that may effect the criminal variety. all these things are significant. not in isolation. but they're significant as you continue to build the story. you build it with where they went. you build it with what they were doing. you build it with the social media content they were displaying every day, keeping in touch with everyone. then it goes cold. you build it by pinpoints him at the scene and the autopsy report. any case as you know, that's why we ca...