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We're not there yet. he's presumed innocent. the fact is there's a long way to go. but you have to remember the deterrent value of this. this is something that is going to be taken seriously by prosecutors, by the judge. this got into our national discourse. we are in a time where, you know, there's assailing immigrants coming out of washington, d.c. there are people wearing blackface in virginia. there's so much in our dialogue nationally, this is not something we needed. you don't want to set a precedent where you want to encourage people to file false reports. prosecutors and judges, when t...

People there were many red flags. let's talk about those. just my reaction, it's so disheartening. such hate as it relates to immigrants and race and for this to be added into the equation doesn't help anything. in terms of the red flags, there are things we talked about. what are those? when you don't report immediately, there's a 40-minute lapse. when you happen to be on the phone with your manager at 2:00 in the morning. when you are asked to turn over your phone records and you redact them. so many things didn't add up. surveillance, nothing caught on tape. we live in a day and age we get ...

>> i want to get to tumor questions that buy candy for the segments over. will this remain a mexico policy, although it's a short-term deal. >> when the government comes in with the americanist interested it out in a short-term thing. once people realized the tactic of coming in the united states and doing catch and release doesn't work it will significantly reduce the likelihood of people wanting to do that. eric: almost at the virtual wall. will the president shut down the government over funding for his physical border wall? is the president walking negotiating tight rope on this one? >> i ...

They basically -- the prosecutors had discretion prior. they took away that discretion. what that means is you are going to get more cases like this. the volume is going to increase. if you have a river and you block up three-quarters of it, the water is going to flow more through one part. it's not complicated. to say you didn't do it on purpose is just not true. >> right. and if it's a deterrent, it's going to take time for the deterrent effect. so you would have to be willing to put up with this situation, i think, for many months if you really want it to have deterrent value. and clearly t...

To be fair to kelly, part of the deterrent value that he was after is making sure they were no longer in that network. >> good point. good point. but something would have to change about the root causes of the crime and violence down there. gentlemen, thank you very much. okay, is immigration dead now in congress? >> yes, yes, yes. >> well, then i'm going to cancel our next guest, gop congressman mark sanford, because i was hoping to get the answer from him, john berman. >> he'll be a second source. plaque psoriasis can be relentless.