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Are playing a high risk gamble. they really, really need him, and they're putting maximum pressure on him. but he is the linchpin to any of the trump family and the former president himself. >> let me play, though, harry, devil's advocate here and say how do they prove weisselberg's credibility? >> well, no, it's not a matter of -- well, first of all, you know, he is going to have chapter and verse of specific transactions. and he's going to be inculpating himself if this happens. he is going to be a guy who says yep, we did it, and they were also culpable. you're right. it's a very good point...

Who are going to want to come forward. not just because they know there's more information. but because they're afraid of getting caught in the bad place of not hearing all the information because eventually, everything will come out. and will they want to be on that side of history? >> let me play devil's advocate because i'm not so sure. i'm not sure we're going to see any republicans say i want to hear more information because it's going to be damaging for the president. what i want to know is, was it the correct move for democrats to close this up before they got the totality of the inform...

Serve more as a defense attorney for donald trump than as the attorney general for the united states of america and the people. yes, i mean this argument as david points out is really absurd. it says that the court should not get involved in this dispute because it's too political. well, if president trump can stonewall congress and there's recourse in the courts, then the president really is above the law, and there is no check on his powers. so that just can't be the case. you know, i remember when i first met president obama as u.s. attorney. with all the u.s. attorneys in the white house a...

Us to always remember that we did not serve him even though he appointed us, we serve the people and the constitution. and if ever those interests diverge to remember where our loyalties lie. i think william barr has forgotten where his loyaltiy is supposed to lie. >> is it uncommon -- let's just play devil's advocate for a moment here and take the argument that william barr is trying to make it as i understand it which these are two coequal branches of government. it's a fight between congress and the executive branch. the courts have no role in trying to decide between because they are the t...

That, the more we'll see people like murkowski and others come out and say whether or not they think this process is fair or whether or not the senate should take a more professional approach to this trial. >> jackie, mcconnell, at least in these initial votes we're finding out about, will there be more documents, more witnesses athis the trial. he can only afford to lose three senators. is that a real concern, that he could lose that many? >> just to play devil's advocate, senate murkowski has always been known for being independent and pretty, you know, beholden and loyal to her constituents...