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Us. i got the sense there was a lot more activity, more stuff happens in that arraignment trial that i was anticipating. it was way less pro forma, way more news worthy than i thought. what did you think? >> well, chris, let me give a shout out to our whole team here covering this because it was a cast of hundreds, including great producers, who were able to bring that coverage to people throughout the course of the day. they deserve a lot of the credit. you are absolutely right. i've been in the courtroom for all three of donald trump's arraignments. this was by far the most active in a lot o...

Have him sentenced any differently than any other defendant? it would be hugely disappointing and i don't anticipate that would be the case. >> the top line, though, you think about he is running to run out the clock, to get elected president, have the charges dropped. and then the state charges, they can throw him in president when he is president, it's all jail out of free -- get out of jail free time. the clock is everything, do you have the same reaction i did today, i think you do because you are saying -- all that date top right off the bat in the arraignment hearing, pretty striking. >>...

States, donald trump, had committed perhaps the largest offense of any president had come near to committing in all of our history, never had to pay for it, came back to office. >> yeah, yeah. it is well sudden, michael. jen, to your point about this sort of small this. and the enormity of the stakes, right, and how close we came to something truly horrendous in terms of the level of bloodshed and violence, in terms of the real kind of end of the constitutional order, which was being contemplated from the indictment by the coconspirators, as alleged. the people who were trying to stop them. if...

Officers -- this has impacted them a lot, they can't get jenner six behind them. some will feel vindicated by the indictment that has come out, but i will tell you, there is no two ways about it, if there wasn't a rally on january six, you and i wouldn't be here to talk. >> when you joined me after you wrote your book, you were in pain. what you wanted most for your men and women, for those officers, was accountability at the absolute top. not just the insurrectionists, you wanted accountability to the people who potentially gave way to this, facilitated it. do you feel like this indictment gi...

Difference between actual criminal charges, which we now see three indictments against donald trump where they've gone to a grand jury, substantial evidence has been amassed. and then mere allegations. which is what you see here from republicans on capitol hill against joe biden. you know, there is one investigation about the haven of classified documents, that is going on, by special counsel into joe biden, and we will see how that one ends up. we don't know how it will end up. but, there is no criminal case going atul against joe biden, alleging corrupt business practices that simply does no...