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Undercover patients, actually taking patients that aren't really sick. having them to go doctors' offices, have them be wired and seeing if doctors or any health care professionals are committing fraud there as well. those are a couple of the ideas. >> to his earlier point, using a bill reagan had passed, then a year later it was dead, is this health care bill still very vulnerable? could a year from now, douse that any of the challenges that the republican are using, whether it is state by state or through the federal courts, is it vulnerable? >> i was a brand new hill aide in 1989 when that ...

To do this substantively, there is no question at this point, when you walk the halls of congress, people are pretty candid about it. there's no question at this point that they are making their arguments for political gain. >> i see you shaking your head. >> here's the thing. the bill happens in a bigger fiscal context, right? so sanjay gupta has earlier on talked about the doc fix. this is a separate issue not in the bill but it is a big issue that shape how much we'll spend over health care over time. similarly, we've put a lot of revenue issues if you are down the line and later in this bi...

Care professionals are committing fraud there as well. those are a couple of the ideas. >> to his earlier point, using a bill reagan had pass asked then a year later it was dead, is this health care bill still very vulnerable? could a year from now do you think that any of the challenges that the republicans are using, whether it is state by state or through the federal courts, sit vulnerable? >> i was a brand new hill aide in 1989 when that was reappealed. it was catastrophic health insurance, mostly for elderly. it was the elderly who wanted it repeal because it taxed them for a benefit that...

Democrats out here, the people who voted for this plan are going to have the wherewithal or the determination to vote no for the fix. we're increasing the deficit further on this. you would believe that as well. >> we were talking about the dodd fix. republicans and democrats seem to be in favor of the doc fix as far as i i've seen. if the doc fix does go through, it's over $200 billion ten-year expenditure. >> let me give you the last word, kathy. >> a lot of ways we can improve on this bill. it's not where it needs to be. this is sausage making, we all know this. it's imperfect. but there ar...

The actuary at c.m.s. said he cannot get the final scoring. they don't include the doc fix in it. that doesn't even take care of medicaid. of the 31 million people that it's going to cover, 16 million are pushed into medicaid. let me tell you, we are coming to a europeanzation of america. the american people feel it. the doc fix they have on medicaid, here is a letter from my governor saying now for two years they will hold the states free. then, they brought the clip, because they cannot afford to pay for it in the federal government. medicaid, they are paying -- the doctors are getting 66% o...