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What the white house is doing is trying to turn ohr into rick gates to massage the jury pool or future jury pool for impeachment and say this guy is not credible because he was involved in this and he's dirty in some way. he is dirty in one way and he's not actually dirty. he is the man that hunted russian mafia figures that were money laundering dollars they had stolen from the liquidation of the soviet union into the u.s. real estate market. donald trump must be terrified of him and everything he has known. like everything that we already have discerned with the mueller probe is, this is goi...

They can sort of massage the jury pool, the future jury pool for an impeachment and say, hey, this guy isn't credible because he was involved in this and he's dirty in some way. he's dirty in one way -- and he's not actually dirty -- he is the man that hunted russian mafia figures that were money laundering dollars that they had stolen from the liquidation of the soviet union into the u.s. real estate market. donald trump must be terrified of him and everything that he's known. but like everything we have discerned with the mueller probe, this is going to be a document case. mueller is going t...

>> malcolm, you're nodding your head. >> yeah, i am nodding my head. look, matt makes a great point here. what the white house is doing is they are essentially trying to turn ohr into rick gates so that they can sort of massage the jury pool, the future jury pool for an impeachment and say, hey, this guy isn't credible because he was involved in this and he's dirty in some way. he's dirty in one way -- and he's not actually dirty -- he is the man that hunted russian mafia figures that were money laundering dollars that they had stolen from the liquidation of the soviet union into the u.s. real...

Shep? >> shepard: peter doocy on verdict watch. first let's turn to jeffrey kramer former federal prosecutor, assistant u.s. attorney now managing director at the global consulting firm berkeley research group. good to see you. >> good afternoon. >> shepard: say what you want about these witnesses. i have heard it said repeatedly this is a document case. would you agree? >> it is mostly a document case with some witnesses sprinkled, in certainly mr. gates, to give a little life to the documents. because these are a lot of numbers, some complicated transactions. you really do need a guide. plan...

In the end, i think this is a case where the government has put on lots and lots of compelling evidence. they've corroborated mr. gates, the main cooperator. there's documents that really demonstrate the fraud. i think in the end the government is going to be fine. this is what i worry about when the judge berates counsel, either side, in front of a jury. >> what's your biggest takeaway so far? >> i think it's going well for the government. as i said just a moment ago, it's a compelling case. it's a document case. the documents cooperate mr. gates, the main cooperator. it seems to me that the ...