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Situation with steve bannon. he has offered not an apology, but offered regret about a single point about don trump jr. but with the president reportedly calling his friends and allies, telling them to pick between him and steve bannon, does bannon's olive branch of regret even matter at this point in your mind? >> well, it's very difficult to know. as we know with the president, he does change his mind actually about people and about situations. so it's difficult to know. and of course he has had a very long and very interesting relationship with steve bannon. i think bannon's position is not...

Piece. we find ourselves on the same side right now of this sort of existential question i think for american democracy and certainly for the republican party. and i think -- i hope that last night is -- we look back on that as maybe not the beginning of the end but certainly the end of the beginning for trumpism and bannonism. i think it has not taken over the country. it is not all-powerful. it can be stopped, and it was stopped in alabama. >> charlie, does bannon's role have to be, look at this new candidate i found and we are going to come at you establishment, i'm going to run this man or...

I think it has not taken over the country. it is not all-powerful. it can be stopped, and it was stopped in alabama. >> charlie, does bannon's role have to be, look at this new candidate i found and we are going to come at you establishment, i'm going to run this man or woman? can't bannon be a force for good in finding quality republicans on ballots across the country? >> yeah, that seems rather unlikely, doesn't it? it turns out the rumors of steve bannon's political genius were grossly exaggerated. it turns out to be something of an urban myth. so you wonder even donald trump is rethinking ...

We find ourselves on the same side right now of this sort of existential question i think for american democracy and certainly for the republican party. and i think -- i hope that last night is -- we look back on that as maybe not the beginning of the end but certainly the end of the beginning for trumpism and bannonism. i think it has not taken over the country. it is not all-powerful. it can be stopped, and it was stopped in alabama. >> charlie, does bannon's role have to be, look at this new candidate i found and we are going to come at you establishment, i'm going to run this man or woman?...

Just a guy who works for me. so it was thrown up again in intrigue. i think what was said yesterday, steve bannon is somewhat alone. what he told swan, what he told associates, that he is ready for a gun fight. we have no sense that sort of trump's admonition to his staff has come the fruition. >> does bannon, among you, does bannon need to go or does the president need him too badly? >> i'll never be a bannon apologist. we see the world very differently. here's what i think will happen. we have an historically unpopular president with a credibility problem who trusts the advisers within his o...