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Statute, 1512, doesn't distinguish. it criminalizes both and for good reason, because, you know, we don't care whether it's open or secret. we just care that someone is witness tampering. now, the president has offered two defenses today. one, his counsel is saying, well, trump was saying to witnesses, don't lie. tell the truth. now, look, i mean that's pretty unusual, right? we have to think about this. donald trump is telling people to not lie? i mean that is uncharacteristic behavior for the man. i mean, you know, you can almost envision trump's pants on fire when he started tweeting today....

Tell me about that, neal. >> yeah. i mean it starts with the president firing comey because he's upset with the russia investigation. it continues as much as last month when he fires jeffrey sessions, not some liberal stalwart, because he's upset that sessions has recused from the russia investigation. and he installs in his place a lackey, whitaker, a fake attorney general, bypassing the senate entirely, and there's no precedent for this whatsoever. so the president is trying to stack the deck at every turn. he's trying to put his loyalists in at the justice department. he's trying to denigra...