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Work it out. you and russia, i'm sure you'll come up with a solution. well, it doesn't help. it doesn't give ukraine any -- any bounce. right? to go into these talks without having that aid to show for. without having a meeting with donald trump to show for. and earlier in the interview, he talked about corruption and how -- how terrible it is to be constantly labeled as a corrupt country. clearly, there is a lot of corruption in ukraine's history. but he talks about the ramifications of the president labeling ukraine as a corrupt country at a time he's trying to clean up corruption. if the u....

Making my debate points in our impeachment debate, since i have abuse of authority. but this is a central tenet of what james madison, hamilton, mason, said about the importance of the impeachment provision and why you would remove a sitting president without an election, goes to the degree to which they're undermining the country. andrew johnson was the first impeachment process. it was for abuse of power. it was for, in this instance we would translate that to your point about brand, weakness that endangers the national security. >> and chuck, just to bring it back to sort of the conversatio...

Member of the irregular channel. >> he's like -- you -- you want me to say this is not outlandish? i -- why don't you just keep talking there, buddy, i'm going to sit this one out, he's like, okay, i'll sit this one out, let's move onto the third amigo. so, i mean, that was the best -- that was the counsel they hired specifically for this purpose. the questioning from the republican side of the aisle did not illicit a lot of substance today, which is too bad. maybe that will get better over time. this is an interesting and important story and the more investigation we can get and hopefully two...

Of how to defend him. i have gone over many times the list of the defenses of, the words in the call to he was joking, to now maybe this is where they're getting to a place of there was a quid pro quo but it wasn't bad enough. so far no matter what has occurred between those two truths i just laid out, it doesn't look like it has moved republican voters at all, which is, as you're kind of getting to, maybe which is -- when this is a political question is one of the most important things. >> well, kate, look, here's -- i thought long ago that democrats should have voted for an impeachment inqui...

Play. does this move by the four witnesses who were supposed to be interviewed today, does it effectively stop the behind closed doors portion of this investigation in its tracks? >> it certainly doesn't help. the witnesses, particularly john bolton, democrats have been eyeing for some time, i don't think it was a surprise that these handful of witnesses weren't going to comply with the subpoena, but in the last several weeks house democrats have interviewed a number of people here. the closed door testimony part of this, part of the impeachment inquiry is starting to wind down a little bit an...