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Responsibility for what happened, but he needs to acknowledge that, ent quote. arba, does the committee need mccarthy to corroborate these remarks and his conversation in person? do they need to be able to question him about this, or does the evidence stand alone? >> well, i mean, the evidence itself is quite damning but, yes, absolutely. he needs to explain why -- why he was saying that and especially what his conversation was with prusk that -- where president trump ostensibly claimed responsibility. you know, kind of going back to the big picture of what we see with the oath keepers, i mean...

Symbolic statement that's being made by these charges for this particular group in calling them, you know, basically traitors. >> based on the evidence that has been made public so far, arba, does the doj have a solid case? what stands out to you? >> yes. what stands out to me here is that, you know, in addition to showing that the oath keepers, the defendants in this case plan to use force. i mean, there is ample evidence here of them obtaining firearms, ammunition, you know, transactional data, recruiting members, training, the intention here is very clear. there is the voluminous data or vo...

Step here before stuart rhodes is transferred to washington where he is going to face these charges. this is essentially his initial -- his initial appearance which is just a procedural step, and then, as you said, you know, these are some very serious charges that the federal government is now saying essentially that this was a conspiracy that -- that spanned from right after the election to even after january 6th, and i'll read you just a couple of passages from the indictment and two days after the presidential election rhodes urged his followers, according to prosecutors, to refuse to acce...

>> well, ana, seditious conspiracy is, as you've already noted, a very serious charge. it's rare because it's harder to prove. it carries a very long sentence, up to 20 years in prison, but i think what makes it especially significant and different from the other charges is that it's a political crime. in addition to going to jail, it carries a stigma of being branded as a traitor to the country, and i think for that reason that it's also very rarely used because you are, you know, basically being declared as a traitor and i think it's flitting in this case because what we see in this indictme...

Violent ones, those, the claim is that they were left wing agitators, right? a majority of republicans say that the violent ones were left wing agitators according to the new polling data. 54% of this, this is a claim, this is obviously fugazi, false, not true. somehow they're holding these two things up, they're like paradoxes, yet republicans seem to believe both of them. either they're left wingers if they're violent or they were mostly peaceful yet republicans seem to be holding two opposite views, they manage to hold both of them. it's obviously crazy, chris. >> if you look at the with th...