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Question. but i don't think there is any clear -- necessarily clear answer of how it's going to turn out at this point. >> it's very hard for senators to do this thing. there is a rational, reasonable way to defend the president to say, you know what, it was inappropriate, shouldn't have been done, it's not the way we should be conducting foreign policy. this weird thing with rudy giuliani doing the shadow thing was terrible, but you know what, doesn't rise to the level of impeachment. i haven't heard a lot of people saying that either, you know why? because the president of the united states ...

Also has phone call has been taken out of context by a number of, including adam schiff. it was running this impeachment inquiry. if adam schiff can read a fake call in front of all the cameras, i think the president of the united states can read a real phone call that he believes doesn't rise to an impeachable offense, and a lot of people don't -- >> melissa: you could walk to the end of his driveway and read it. >> katie: we always talk about people needing to read things. people are going to read the transcript, but they will listen to the president reading it on air, and watch it. >> harri...

Execute a quid pro quo trading public trust for personal political interest? it's so stark, and really undenied. >> well, i think primarily because they believe the public has not in large measure bought that narrative, that that is a narrative that the democrats have been saying repeatedly up against this yooild that this is a sham effort, that this has been done in secret. and therefore because it's been done in secret this is lot of stuff that favors the president that we don't know. well, i don't know what that would be. >> i mean, because he's admitted doing it. because his top mick mulva...

We know -- i mean, what's impeachable? it's like a ham sandwich. what can you indict? you can indict a ham sandwich. doesn't mean you convict a ham sandwich. >> as somebody who's served on the house judiciary committee and oversight committee, i can tell you with full support that this impeachment process is a purely political exercise. >> is there anything you've heard that's been disturbing to you? is there -- i'm curious. this -- because, you know, i've talked to plenty of republicans who are in this sort of middle ground. they don't believe it's impeachable. but they do think the president...

Vote on the impeachment inquiry. and now republicans are saying that vote isn't good enough. so, the president's essentially saying, you need to keep adjusting because i need you to be loyal to me. >> how does that work, michael? the president and his allies said vote. he said testify publicly. if they get both, then what? >> look, i mean, this is the problem, trying to defend the president on substance is like building a house on quicksand. you can't do it. you can argue process fouls or you could argue that what he did was wrong but doesn't rise to the level of removing him from office a yea...