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That the special grand jury recommends whether fani willis should pursue charges. now it's up to her to decide whether or not to pursue those charges. so even if they recommend 65 people on that list, it's still up to fani willis, the d.a., to decide whether to move forward with those charges. but look, you know, there's what, six different special grand jurors who've spoken, one on the record, five anonymously to the "atlanta journal-constitution." but i can tell you this, the fulton county judge, superior court judge robert mcburny, talked to all the grand jurors about what they could and co...

He just said. i've got to tell you, this was another extraordinary turn in what is an extraordinary case in new york. mr. costello detailing what he described as mr. cohen's state of mind, a frenzied and panicked state. he directly referred to, quote, suicidal thoughts, end quote, that mr. cohen shared with him at the time when he was facing legal pressure. how any of that is relevant to the hard evident would be a matter of debate. mr. costello as a legal matter talked more about mood and atmospherics than hard evidence. but nonetheless it's striking. the other thing we should tell viewers in...

There may never be one. those are powerful gop leaders doing it as a political message. they don't through congress have authority over a local criminal probe. they don't fund it or oversee it. at the same time, this weekend's earthquake from trump is also opening a fissure within the republican party. take speaker mccarthy. he echos trump's argument any charges are politically motivated. he's saying lawyers think this is a weak case against trump but the speaker breaking with trump's call for protests on saturday saying clearly people should not protest if trump is indicted, mccarthy also tel...

How did they evade -- not pay tax on this or that and that was a lot of the components of that trial, but the jury, give them credit. they came at the end and they came out with a guilty verdict and they seem to based on some of the exit interviews i read they had a very clear understanding of what the trump organization had done. >> yeah, asha, i want to turn your attention given your experience to what i mentioned, these witnesses there today. it's kind of surprising to people watching who have followed this case and followed the stormy daniels -- we remember michael avenatti and michael coh...

I'm sure you're familiar with the idea out there where people say, why has it taken this long? was has he gotten away with so much, and, yet, there are many examples in life and in law where the thing you slip on is not the nuclear code, it's the banana peel. it's not the triple felony, it's the misdemeanor. it's not in al capone's case terrible mafia activity and murder but tax evasion. i'm curious given your work on the sort of guts and math of this how you see what may be shaping up to be a case that will in some sense boil down to math and lies if charged? >> right. you know, i just first ...