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Presidential debate is august 23rd. you have qualified for that debate stage, and the second debate as well. how are you preparing for the first debate? >> well, i'm traveling eight states in seven days leading up to the debate. i want to be careful not to over prepare. i've done my best in this campaign, the weight paid running this campaign is by speaking the truth. in a way that is unconstrained by members of the donor class or the political consultant handler class. my bet is that's going to be a competitive advantage on the stage, but the truth is that every other candidates in this race ...

That constrains what candidates can actually say. a lot of that comes from the donor class. in the republican party, you have a lot of super pac puppets, i'm not one of them. i'm a patriot who speaks the truth. i'm independent. i'm putting my own money into this campaign precisely to avoid taking a tin can with a hat in hand. asking a bunch of donors for permission to run. and i think that's a very different model for many professional politicians in this race. and the good news is, voters across our country, in our base, they can tell the difference between somebody who's actually sharing the...

Pace and its unsustainable. for this reason, today i am declaring a state of emergency in massachusetts. >> laura: these people are shameless, it was obvious from the beginning this was going to be a catastrophe for regular working class people and now they are just getting it because the elites in boston are upset? >> that's exactly right, now the donor class that pulls the strings in both parties has decided it's now inside the overton window to complain about the southern border. the problem is it is too little, too late and the fact is even the wall which they criticized long ago, most peo...

Which brings me to ron desantis. 17% of his fund raising comes from those small dollar donations, which is, well, it raises some questions. joining me now to help answer them is tim miller, writer for the bulwark, also a communications director for jeb bush's 2016 presidential campaign, which, i remember well, and which we're gonna talk about in a second. but first, the small dollar donations, those numbers, to me, more than the diminishing poll numbers, seem like a considerable problem for the desantis campaign. do you read it that way? >> yeah, they sound really familial or. they look like t...

That's exactly right, which is that this feels like token resistance to donald trump, by everyone other than chris christie. and that when the moment comes and they fall by the wayside, everyone rallies up and gets behind donald trump again. >> yeah, willie, and that's the frustrating part about this. you have these self-serious people in a lot of news outlets, over on fox, other places that are writing these memos, in the donor class, in the strategist class of the republican party, that are trying to convince themselves and trying to convince a minority of republican voters, you know, the 15...