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People bullying him which doesn't put him in a good position going forward. >> wow. [ laughter ] >> what? >> this is always something about ted cruz. i remember, you know, cancun and i remember him like donald trump -- >> but ted cruz -- >> his wife -- >> for these people watching that want to go into politics. me and alice may disagree where we land on ted cruz. we can agree on the fact you have to be principled in politics because if you don't have principles, then you can get beat and bullied into positions and look somewhat like a fence sitter and you don't stand for anything. no one knows...

Watching who want to go into politics, and i think me and alice may disagree on where we land on ted cruz. but what we can agree on is the fact that you have to be principled in politics because if you don't have principles, then you can get beat and bullied into positions and look somewhat like a fence sitter and you don't stand for anything. no one knows what ted cruz stands for when it comes to january 6th now because he's not consistently on message and he goes where the wind goes. >> he has been consistent with regard to attacks on police officers being terrorists and certainly acts of do...

Ride and things since then have deteriorated. i think that's because we got away from our fundamental beliefs, our fundamental principles and if you don't have principles, you don't have anything. >> shannon: do you think there's room in society for people when they do make a mistake and something that is -- a word that is so hurtful and hateful to people, that there can be redemption, you can have forgiveness and start over? >> sure, sure. i think you have to have that. we are all going to make mistakes. some are small, some are big, but i think the key to make a mistake is you own it, you ta...

What's so disappointing about it and despicable about it. talking about people doing the right thing. imagine you go to college, you work your way through college, you get out and you meet your girlfriend there and you guys get married and you both come out of school and you're saddled with a couple hundred thousand dollars worth of debt. you work your way through the corporate system and you have a couple of kids and you sacrifice, who knows, maybe 10, 20 years later, you have made it up the ladder of success. you've made all the sacrifices. you go to church but in the president's eyes becaus...

Congress who either believe in the health care bill or they want to protect their jobs. that is what happen when you have gutless politicians. arlen specter said, great job voting for stimulus, be he said, you voted against it, yeah, i don't want to tick the people off, but it is the right thing to do, but i didn't want to do it. we have gutless politicians on both sides who don't have principles, but they want to protect their jobs which is part of broken government. >> karen? >> well, the only thing i would add to the suggestion is that there were no sharp objects in the room as well. well, ...