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She's just a dust speck in the american body politic, right? as zeleny points out, because the president sets the tone. once norms are shattered, it's very difficult to put them back together. you know? i worked for a president who gave the medal of freedom to his opponent from the campaign of 1996, bob dole. why? because bob dole deserved it. they didn't agree about politic, but dole is an american hero. we need to find a way to get back to it, but this president makes it very, very difficult. it is -- people should note, by the way, can i just quickly, what exactly senator mccain endured? he...

Except for one vote. you remember that beautiful night. it was -- it was defeated, but one vote changed. >> joining me now to discuss, paul begala and jim schultz. paul, politics is politics, but it doesn't matter, he's dying anyway. when john mccain, as everyone knows, is in arizona right now at home battling brain cancer. where is the line between, you know, politics and human decency? >> well, there is no decency in a comment like that, obviously. it's one thing to argue over whether gina haspel should run the cia. recently people can differ. reasonable people, good people don't say things ...