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Ukraine, not russia, maybe even rudy giuliani comes in. i think he's got some issues if he gets up there because he's going to have to explain his relationship to the president. but your managers will matter. how do you deal with all of that information coming in that you kept out on this level? >> el witwell, we think that th president and his defenders are really bluffing. lindsey graham said we're going to have a hearing and bring rudy giuliani. what happened to that? giuliani is no where to be seen. he has nothing that can demonstrate innocence as relates to the president. he'll make the s...

>> but your friend and former work colleague, john bolton, he left, insinuating the same kind of things, telling people he thought this was like a drug deal what was going on in ukraine with rudy and others and he didn't want to be a part of it and you got to tell the lawyers and get away from it. now he's sending these cryptic tweets about how national security is under attack from within. what is he getting at? >> i don't know. i haven't discussed it with him. but i haven't seen mr. bolton criticize the president. >> he has not done so yet, at least not outwardly. the question is why won't h...

Decision-maker on this and the mining company, but the epa is insisting that there was no advanced notice on what they called the timing or content of this decision. they said that those meetings, including meetings with those opposed to the mine are quite common. the epa fighting back on this with us saying there was no tip. >> so where is this complaint going? the sec is not investigating at this point, right? >> el witwell, we don't know. this complaint was just filed. we talked to about a half a dozen former investigators, experts on this, they all say look, there's red flag there is. we w...

So there's something more to this, fred. there's something more to it. but under these circumstances, i don't believe her defense, her phone call. i don't think it's going to be sufficient. they catch you lying. a defendant gets caught lying, the jury crushes them. government witness, they can get caught lying, still okay. a defendant lives, it's over. and i think this particular person is going to get convicted. >> avery, because somehow this defendant has to establish how -- it's one thing that all the goors lodoors look the same entering into the doors is not the same. how did she enter wha...

Of justice. that's number one. now you have a porn star, as you noted, sounds so glamorous and it's not, who received $130,000 from the lawyer of donald trump, who just decided to do it out of the goodness of his heart. and to add to that, you have a white house right now that is embroiled in unbelievable amount of controversy around defending somebody who's been alleged of domestic abuse. any other president, don, would not be able to survive one of those attacks. and for donald trump, he seemed to just move on. >> el witwell, michael, you tal about the stories coming left and right. here's o...