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Democratic voters in the polls saying what we're looking for is the candidate who is most likely strongest positioned to beat donald trump, and the poll shows right now the answer to that question is biden. how do the other candidates compete on that question? >> well, a couple things. i do want to throw some caution in the conversation. a couple things. one is, the electability question if you go back to 2008, look at democrats just suffering loss after loss to george bush. he electability question was one of the leading questions, one of the leading top issues for democrat back in 2008. and ...

Forward. i wouldn't place too much on electability. particularly if you're biden you're looking at this poll after poll after poll shows almost the entire field is competitive if not in fact beating donald trump in the general election match-up. to me, to joy's point this is more what democrats have to do than donald trump. donald trump is going to have his somewhere between 42 and 46% locked in. to joy's point, if you look where hillary clinton lost the election income 2016, it was 4 million obama votes are sat out. you had 3%, 4% of millennials who broke for obama and breaking third party. t...

What do you think? >> a couple things. he does have something, right? name i.d. name i.d. counts for a lot especially at this stage. it's not just name i.d., because bernie and those guys, they tried to attack him early on on all of his problems of touching women inappropriately. didn't put a dent in his poll numbers. biden's numbers with women have gone up since he has entered tha race. the other thing that he maybe has is that electability question. democrats, their main concern, as you heard the woman say to biden, she can't take anotherr six years of trump. it's actually only going to be f...

He has been in many very, very difficult campaigns against republicans. and he has really been through the sort of -- been put through the ringer. so if there's a suggestion people don't know who senator sanders is i think is really not fair. the truth of the matter about electability is if democrats twoopt win you have to be able to win democrats and you have to be able to win the lion's share of independence. and the truth of matter is if we look at the polls, i'm not just making this up, if you look at polling he consistently does better with independents than secretary clinton does. if you...

That seems like pretty shaky data. >> look, that's one proof point. right? his strength with independence is consistent and has been consistent throughout this campaign and that's something you can't deny. and democrats are not going to win. the number of people who self-identify as independents is far greater than republicans or democrats. i think you have to acknowledge a democrat can't win a federal election without winning independents. he definitely does better with independents. i will say this about electability. the truth of the matter democrats win when you have large voter turnouts. ...