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The late Sen. Howard Baker knew President Nixon was wrong during Watergate. Former Vice President Mike Pence knew President Trump was wrong on Jan. 6.

Democracy. there may be people like donald trump who are so delusional that they believe that nonsense. but the rest of them are cynics, the rest of them are simply riding the wave so that they can stay in office. and they're doing it at the expense of the country, they're doing at the expense of our democracy. and i have a piece today up in the washington post that really talks about the democrats and the rest of the pro democracy movement need a game plan. they need to identify these people, particularly the people who are in a position to affect election returns and election counting. they ...

Doing as much as one could possibly expect to get the facts -- to get the facts out there, to get the evidence out there. >> i know you think trump hasn't really done himself any favors, that his reaction to ivanka trump's testimony last week where he said she wasn't involved in this election counting and the election results, you think it's actually problematic for the officials who were and what their testimony means in this. >> well, it's pretty funny to see president trump who has turned against every single official he has ever appointed basically because they have all spoken the truth ab...

Just donald trump was trying to interfere in their -- the u.s. attorney quit very suddenly, apparently under pressure from the white house. because he was not doing anything to reverse the election counting in georgia, and they're all seems to be a piece with the justice department having an obvious -- to clean their own house in that situation. >> absolutely, i would add to that the fact there is reporting at very high levels of the justice department about that issue with the u.s. attorney. who had an effort to decapitate the leadership of the justice department. install someone like jeffrey...

Election denial gop running for office in michigan side? >> it is now. and in fact, i specifically asked that the michigan republican party denounce and condemn the language of this candidate for governor and candidate for state senate and they specifically refused to, and in fact, i have three opponents running against me for michigan attorney general who would be charged with enforcing election laws. they have remained completely silent on this. and that is terrifying. >> and just on the acts themselves, so, these are aspiring politicians telling people to pull out the plugs on voting machin...