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Of taking on russia and russian forces. and i find it hard to believe at this point that anyone in the united states would want to get in a shooting war with russia. and then you're talking about there's an end game issue here. once you get there, that's a whole different level. >> if you're not destroying all their aircraft, just shoot one down so you ground it and create these safe joans, if russia decides to challenge you in that, the risk of an escalation to matthew's point is enormous. >> it's huge. and i would counter senator mccain and lead more towards concongressman multien in an over...

I find it hard to believe that at this point, anybody in the white house or the united states is eager to get into a shooting war with the russians which you would be risking in that situation. then you are into -- there's an end game issue here. once you get there, that's a -- you are at another level. >> general hertling, from a military standpoint, if you do say you want to do what senator mccain is recommending, which is ground their air fleet, even if you are not destroying all their aircraft, shoot one down so you ground it and create the safe zones, if rus challenges, if russia decides ...