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That commentators like me have always had is that we're not inside putin's mind and we don't really know what his end state that he's aiming for actually is. i suspect that the consensus is that he's now going to concentrate and trying to annex the donbas area and then, if he feels that he has sufficient combat power and political will, he might try and head towards moldova, to, you know, sort of quote liberate transnistria. i don't think they have the combat power or the resources to do both of those. so, i think -- it's donbas for the moment and see what happens. >> yeah, i mean, of course, ...

That however and whenever this ends that ukraine emerges as a free and independent country. we can up the pressure if we were able to create a total embargo on oil and gas. that would hasten or certainly weaken fundamentally putin's capacity to wage war. but, again, you want to stop mass killings. if you can't intervene militarily and we won't, and it is hard for me to admit we shouldn't, then we have to give the ukrainians the power and the capacity in every aspect of what making war really means in order to stop russian advances, and ultimately and here is where it becomes extremely sketchy,...

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Arms, excessive amounts of artillery and rockets, tanks, they have been training. they know how to do this. the ukrainians are going to be out matched. putin is not concerned about that. he'll win that fight. the problem is once you break it you got to own it. you might win the fight but won't win the peace. he will unleash an insurgency he does not want to have to deal with. the cost will ek seed his ability to try to achieve his desired end state. he is looking for influence. he doesn't want to crush ukraine. he doesn't want to completely rubble the place. he is looking for ukraine to be in ...

Could that affect his mental state? you have to hope and pray he is not crazy. you have to hope and pray that he has people around him if he is crazy, he is insane, they won't let him act. they won't carry out a crazy, insane, evil order to use nuclear weapons. let's face it, they are allowing him to commit war crimes and they are committing war crimes along with him. reporter: what is his end state right now, senator? based where he is now, what does he attempt to lay claim to? >> he is hoping all ukraine would capitulate, greet him as a liberator, live happily ever after. that will certainly...