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Impact the people that work in it. in other words, if you think that in this environment irs agents were emboldened to do this kind of stuff? >> so i think there's two separate parts to that. number one is i think you have an administration that has fostered a culture of intimidation. they've said if you disagree with us on an issue, we don't have just a disagreement. you're a bad person. we're going to go out and basically smear you. you saw what they did to mitt romney but also mitt romney supporters. you see that now if you don't agree with them on the definition of marriage, you're a bigot...

That. in fact, since this entire irs thing has erupted you have seen this dmuld question not only by prominent republicans like senator thune but others who say the irs is a mess. senator, how bad does this get on the health care implication side? >> well, i think that's one of the really scary aspects about this whole discussion, neil, is that the very people, sarah ingram, who was head of the exempt division that did all of this political targeting in this latest episode would be responsible under obama care for the regulations associated with all of the pieces of obama care that the irs is ...

Illegally. they'll be here whether we pass the bill or not. there are no consequences to that. there won't be any consequences to that under this president. every year that goes by the more entrenched. they're not paying taxes. they're not being held accountable for the work they're doing, etc. we don't know who they are. these are the reasons why we have to pass the immigration reform. if you leave the status quo in place, that is amnesty. >> senator, i know you have to go. we're 40 years past watergate. they've said the way these hearings are going on, the irs, benghazi, who knows what happe...

Center is the irs. the irs in addition to being in charge of our tax code is on the front lines of obama care. a massive -- >> does it smell like watergate to you? >> i would just say let's have an investigation before we throw that term around. >> okay. >> bottom line is, we need to know the answer to that. the credibility of the american government and the trust of our people and the people that run it is at stake. >> all right. marco rubio, he's not done with this. and then there's this. maybe not just james. new details, the department of justice wasn't just tracking his records. greta van...

At the irs. now senator marco rubio says he's heard more than enough today. >> it's pretty outrageous that she went to the committee, kind of testified, got her part of the argument out and then left and said, i'm not talking anymore. so i think it's certainly instructive. the bottom line is, number one, let's just realize what's happening here. the irs either deliberately targeted americans because of their political views or they're incompetent. which one of those do we feel comfortable with? i think they're both really bad. i think it's difficult to think that they're incompetent. as far as...