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Claim under the espionage act. it also will switch their claim, you know, under the obstruction case. because, you know, one of the things he has been saying all along is that he can just wave a magic wand and these documents are declassified. and in this instance, in his own words, he saying that it is not declassified. so that is very troubling for him, no doubt about it. and, you know, i think the only matter, the big question is going to be what comes in at trial. under the classified information procedures act is this all gonna be admissible? probably so. and it is going to be a big hurdl...

His life. this is a man who has been sued, deposed, taken to fit, the fifth impeached twice, tried in the senate, investigated by congress. even indicted by the state authorities here in manhattan. but being indicted by the justice department is different. this is a whole different ball game, the doj has way more resources. the conduct here is going to be, i think it's safe to say, more significant than what he was indicted for in manhattan. and the consequences, if he is convicted, are going to be much more severe than what he is looking at in manhattan. >> what about, there was an espionage ...

Falsification of justice conspiracy and false statement,s. it marks the first time a former president has been charged. with us elie honig, and former prosecutor, jeremy salan. i want to start with you. let's take a listen to what trump attorney jim trustee said about the charges. >> you basically break out from an espionage charge which is ludicrous under the facts of this case, and i can certainly explain it, and several obstruction based charges and false statement charges which are actually, again, kind of a crazy stretch just from the facts as we know it. there's a lot to pick at eventual...

Argument in this case, he is talking about something else, but he's saying, look at this information. so, dan, he's talking to people and we just heard from paula reid that they do not have the status that would be required to reveal this information. so does that speak some to the espionage charge or what could be an espionage charge? >> of course. of course it does. it speaks to, again, for every one of these seven crimes they have to prove -- the government has to prove knowledge, intent and it sort of goes beyond that. are you taking the law into your own hands? i know what the law is, i'm...

Jury. every time that he has shown up in the documents investigation, that typically indicative of espionage questions. for other issues like obstruction, there have been other prosecutors both from -- you know special counsel jack smith had detailed to his office, as well as people he heard from the outside. i think the involvement of g brad in the grand jury, i think -- points to the fact that this grand jury mandate on espionage charge. >> glenn, what do you think, whether he likes it or, not could budowich have given some important information? >> yes i think budowich assuming he testified...