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National anthem at the school's sporting events. on the phone, professor of education at goshen college who argued they should continue to not play the anthem. let's start with you. we've reached 2010. why not change this? >> well, it is the right of allegiance and allegiance to the country, a country which we are delighted to be living and want to be a part of. but mennonites believe our first allegiance should be to god. as your piece showed, we are pacifist. we don't believe fighting is consistent with our belief in jesus' suffering love. >> joe, given that most students on campus actually ...

From a military situation. even more, if you think about the -- take a context like a super bowl. if you're going to have a fly over, it's not going to be crop dusters. it's not going to be hot air balloons. it's going to be fighter jets. how often in a major setting it would be accompanied by a military color guard. there really is a pretty strong military text or sub text to the anthem oftentimes. >> kathy, i got to ask you, what about playing the national anthem, say, at the olympics when americans win a gold medal? is that also problematic? >> well, it indeed identifies us with our country...