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That people can see for themselves, quickly. >> quickly. is this about keeping trump off the ballot in 2024 or making him toxic? >> it is both. anything that trump did or anything this administration thinks that trump did they are against and with biden's numbers tanking so dramatically and with the democrat numbers in the house tanking so dramatically they are scared to death of one, losing the house next year and losing the white house very possibly to trump in 2024 so they are taking a shortsighted approach with this executive privilege arguments. it will come back to bite democrats over an...

Or even days, they will tell you that one of the people he brings up most frequently when he talks about the executive privilege arguments is former white house chief of staff mark meadows. and he gets in a little bit of a tizzy about why any white house chief of staff should have to be subjected to this quote unquote harassment. >> kevin mccarthy's answer on the local news program was interesting. and i thought the response from thompson and cheney was also interesting. you had a great piece about just sort of recalling a thing that had sort of vanished down the memory hole, which is that mcc...

And trials have witnesses. and they are still relevant witnesses. and the point is, if what the house has proved is not enough and i think we have shown abuse of power that's jeopardized election integrity if i. will these four individuals have information that is relevant. it's relevant that the president is telling them not to go forward because innocent men do not conceal or hide evidence. they are forthcoming and cooperative. they do that because they have nothing to hide. >> martha: all right. well, they also protect executive privilege which presidents have done up and down the line in t...

Does that track with the rule of law that we talked about? on obstruction i would encourage you to think about this. in nixon it did go to the courts and nixon lost. and that was the reason nixon resigned. he resigned a few days after the supreme court ruled against him in that critical case. but in that case, the court recognized there are executive privilege arguments that can be made. it didn't say you had no right coming to us, don't darken our doorstep again. it said we've heard your arguments, we've heard congress's arguments and you know what? you lose. turn over the material to congres...

You've heard about impeachment? does that track with the rule of law that we talk about? so on obstruction i would encourage you to think about this. in nixon, it did go to the courts and nixon lost. and that was the reason nixon resigned. he resigned a few days after the supreme court ruled against him in that critical case. but in that case, the court recognized there are executive privilege arguments that can be made. it didn't say you had no right coming to us, don't darken our doorstep again. it said we've heard your arguments, we've heard congress' arguments, and you know what, you lose,...