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Listen to this. >> you're saying it's a falsehood, and they're giving sean spicer, our press secretary gave alternative facts. >> in a situation like this, you have, over time, facts develop. >> what you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening. >> if fact-counting is anything, we've never had any anybody with the level of mendacity that he has, not even close. >> it's in the eye of the beholder. >> no, facts are not in the eye of the beholder. >> yes, it is. >> i said it then. i'll say it again. facts are not in the eye of the beholder. the truth is the truth. each one of tho...

About. >> the first person point on that quote, the makeup call quote, he shade she said is different than perjury lying under law. he said she said happens a lot of times in legal proceedings. it is a little bit of a red herring. regardless there is a history of this with the trump administration and giuliani more broadly. i want to play a couple of thing. it's rudy giuliani from chris cuomo's show earlier this month. just this month. >> if fact counting is anything we have never had anybody with the level of mend asity as he does. >> it is in the eye of the bow holder. >> no, facts are not i...

Into the idea that there are different versions of the truth. that's the opposite of the definition of the truth. no one is buying this. the special counsel i don't think is buying it, lucky for the president and other people, this is not what democrats are running on across the country in midterm elections. this just doesn't make sense. >> mark, you worked at the white house, former assistant to the president, worked for the vice president, it is not just this statement this time from one man, from rudy guiliani, it is the totality of it, right? let's jog everyone's memory a moment. take a lo...

Lawyer. that was the intention of the meeting. you just said it. >> that was the original intention of the meeting. it turned out to be a meeting of another subject and it was not pursued at all. >> and even the question of whether the president played a role in drafting a statement about that meeting has changed from no to yes. thou those specifics are damning enough. the overarching reality is this administration repeatedly insists you are entitled to your own facts. >> you're saying it's a falsehood and they're giving sean spicer our press secretary give alternative facts to that. >> i thin...

Talked so much about it being pr. he says his strategy is to confuse everyone. here he was. >> he didn't know. i know he didn't know. >> and if he did? >> i know it, even beyond being his lawyer. >> if he knew, is it a problem? >> no. and -- >> no. >> no. he didn't know. i'm not going to get into the hypothetical. he did not know. >> okay. because you get into the hypothetical about mueller and the comey -- >> that confuses the hell out of people. >> if fact-counting is anything, we never had anybody with a level of mendacity he has. >> it's in the eye of the beholder. >> no, facts are not in ...