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Disinformation. the united states, that is illegal. so if you take that fact into account, you have the kremlin speaking, people listening to putin. his approval ratings are high. disinformation is put out to the russian people by russian services. and the fact that western services are closed off in russia. you can't get access easily to russian information you can see why russian people believe putin is right and why they believe the west is wrong and the united states is the aggressor here. information waves are owned by the government. >> michael, there was reporting earlier, clarissa ward...

Exactly what happened with world war ii germany making fake claims about being attacked. i looked at this and said if disinformation is going to be successful as a former intel guy you have to start with a baseline of truth. some kernel of fact and then build the lies on that little bit of fact. i think what the white house is doing and secretary blinken today, over the course of weeks and months, is take out the prospect that anybody could believe the russians. so i think the chance that disinformation works that the russians claim work is low except for countries that already support putin. ...

Sflrs fact and then build the lies on that little bit of fact. i think what the white house is doing, what secretary blinken is saying over the course of week andrz month stooz take out the prospect that anybody could believe the russians. i think the chance that disinformation works that the russians claim work is olow except for countries that already support putin. the americans are going to need the europeans if the russians move in and i can't believe anybody in europe believes what the russians are saying. >> are they just being fed putin's disinformation? >> reporter: one of the most in...

Red line. how important is it? >> i think the president and his team are going to be careful about issuing red lines when nato does not want to get involved in hot a war in ukraine with russia. i think there's also an important point here, especially as russia is doing poorly and reaching stalemate and putin feel said desperate. is there a way out and not merely a sense he's got nothing to lose? because that becomes a catastrophe diplomatically, militarily and morally, humanly. that is something they want to avoid. and there has to be some recognition that part of what has fed putin's paranoia...