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numbers of them every day on the phone, they say they want the world to know the truth about what they are seeing about what they are going through. many want outside help, but they don't want others to liberate them. we hear that time and time again. they want to liberate themselves. i spoke with another protester and he told me this revolution has to belong to the people fighting for it. >> one thing i'm happy about right now is that we are -- we are taking things into our own hands. i mean, unlike with all due respect to the iraqis, somebody came in to give them democracy. you know, this way this is like we earned it. hopefully when we do get it -- >> that's what you want, you want democracy? >> yes. and we want to earn it by ourselves. >> they want to earn it. another voice telling the story from tripoli. 168 others are beginning to tell their own stories from malta tonight. americans who finally made it
with the opposition closing in, gadhafi appears to be digging in. one american evacuee told cnn he saw carnage in tripoli. he said "the army was using automatic rifles against little kids that were carrying nothing more than pebbles." little kids, he said. i want to play again what gadhafi said today in tripoli's green square. listen. >> translator: we are prepared to break any aggression by the people, the armed people and the time will come when all the ammunition warehouses will be open for the people to defend the country. >> how brutal will the end game get and what will it take to stop gadhafi? i spoke with bob bear, intelligence columnist and the author of "the company we keep." he's a former cia officer. and also i spoke with professor assad, a former gadhafi aide and now a history professor at western connecticut sate university. in the late '70s, he took part in a plot to overthrow gadhafi. the plot was discovered and the
and they didn't say specifically, but they said it is substantial sums by any account. >> fouad, the sanctions make any difference whatsoever to what happened in tripoli? >> no, we've seen this movie before about the sanctions. gadhafi endured a generation, 15 years or so of sanctions. we also have another case of sanctions, which our viewers will remember very well, which is saddam hussein, who endured sanctions from 1991 to 2003, when president george bush decapitated his regime. the sanctions never worked. anyone with money, anyone with a huge amount of money as gadhafi does, can break these sanctions, can bust them with great ease. and one thing we know about the sanctions, to pass sanctions, if you come to the security council and do a round of sanctions in the security council, there you need the russians and the chinese. the only kinds of resolutions and provisions that would pass in the united nations are really mild.
how much control do they have over the oil in the east in anti-gadhafi territory now? >> well, in the eastern part of the country, they have complete control over that oil. and there is a lot of pressure to completely cut it off. but i spoke with somebody in the committee that runs benghazi, and they said that just to strangle -- just to cut off the flow of funds to the government of tripoli, they would be more than happy to completely cut it off. but technically, it's a problem. some of these pipelines are so old, that if you stop pumping, they quickly become blocked with wax from the residue of the oil. so they have to maintain a certain level of production. but our understanding is that the workers in those oil fields and the engineers along the pipeline are fully in support of the anti-gadhafi forces. anderson? >> jill, what are you hearing about the next steps in terms of the administration? are there next steps?
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said the regime would never kill its own people. he lies and he smiles and he winks. global pressure is starting to build today. there's no doubt about that. the hope is, it's the beginning of the end. the fear is, what gadhafi might do between now and then. and just in case there is anyone listening tonight who might believe the gadhafis who say they would never kill their own people, although i find it hard to believe anybody would believe it at this point. tonight, another voice. more proof. a man who says he saw people die today on the streets of tripoli after friday prayers. what happened when you left -- what happened after mosque today? >> people were in groups walking down the streets. the military came and they tried to shoot at people. and they weren't shooting to scare people off, they were shooting to kill. they killed people in front of my eyes. children, old men. >> you saw people dying?
shielding him, covering him with his body. he and a small circle of protesters protecting this mercenary from the angry mob. protecting a man who just moments before was apparently roaming the streets with orders to kill. keeping them honest, orders from the man who showed up today in tripoli's green square with his henchmen and promised to open up his arsenals and turn libya into a red flame. >> translator: we are prepared to break any aggression by the people, the armed people and the time will come when all the ammunition warehouse also be open for the people to defend the country. i came here in order to greet you, greet your courage, and i tell you to repel them. moammar gadhafi is not a president, neither a king nor a head of state. neither any high position but the people love him, because we are the glory, dignity. look, america, look. look to the libyan people. this is moammar gadhafi among the libyan people. among the masses of the libyan
said the regime would never kill its own people. he lies and he smiles and he winks. global pressure is starting to build today. there's no doubt about that. the hope is, it's the beginning of the end. the fear is, what gadhafi fight do between now and then. and just in case there is anyone listening tonight who might believe the gadhafis who say they would never kill their own people, although i find it hard to believe anybody would believe it. but tonight more proof, a man who says he saw people die on the streets of tripoli after friday prayers. what happened when you left -- what happened after mosque today? >> people were in groups walking down the streets. the military came and they tried to shoot at people. and they weren't shooting to scare people off, they were shooting to kill. they killed people in front of my eyes. children, old men. >> you saw people dying?
influence events on the ground there? >> reporter: very close contact. they're in very close contact. in fact, people are constantly handing me phones of their relatives in tripoli to talk to them, to gather information so the cell phones work. so you can actually get in contact with tripoli very easily. they're doing what they can here. in fact, we're hearing that there is a move to put together some sort of force that might be able to go help the people of tripoli in fighting back against the regime. but the problem is that whereas the regime in tripoli has airplanes, tanks, armored personnel carriers and helicopters, there's very little in the way of heavy machinery, heavy weaponry that can be used against those forces here. it's mostly rpgs, ak-47s, some surface-to-air missiles but not
tripoli is fighting for its life. benghazi a relatively free city. and this fight between the new libya, living on hope now, and the old libya, living on terror, is a fight to the finish and the sanctions really don't apply to it. >> i was sitting there watching gadhafi's son, saif, who is the most presentable of all the thuggish sons and the most sort of westernized and the most polished, who does try to represent himself and has for years tried to represent to the world as the new libya. but he is as thuggish in the end, fouad, as the representatives of the old regime. >> i think these people, the house of gadhafi, they've crossed the rubicon. it's over for them. they now live in a different world. there are no more meetings in new york. they can't come to universities and be wined and dined. this is over. they are now fighting for their dominion in the only primitive way they know. if you allow me, in many ways i think of this fight -- i've been thinking about in in the last