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Terms of tackling and fighting putin's aggression. and this is a part of making sure that he continues to rally countries in terms of if you look at the peace accord in yemen or other issues around the world, if you look at israel, two-state solution. he'll be doing all of those things while he's over there, and it is a summit and a trip that focuses on the national security of this country and the world. but part of national security also is the price of oil and the president has used every tool in his tool kit, including the petroleum reserve, and i'm sure the conversation will come up, but ...

Forcing putin to end the illegal invasion quickly remains the best way to prevent disaster. that could truly open up a level of risk not seen since the worst days of the cold war. aren't we about here? >> yes. remind me of the saying never attribute to malice that which can be explained by incompetence. i can't understand how this is part of the war plan. and of course, a bunch of stories today about putin having the back against the wall and doubling down and of course what he does. so we need to provide some kind of off ramp. i'm for no war in any circumstances and should be a ways with ukra...

Ukraine across its vast borders. with russian troops. >> i do see it the same way. and frankly it's what putin is all about and what he is trying to do here. and i think that richard did as well and i do think he is looking -- he is always about being in control of ukraine, hopefully in a cheap way in which you don't have to invade a country. now he has had to invade because, frankly, it was the only way in which you could achieve his goal. but pushing a little further, just as you did, in the conversation, with richard. he has to occupy the country in order to install his puppet. and then wha...

But we haven't seen that. i could tell you what that is but american policymakers don't want to talk about that yet. >> he's the one terrorizing the ukrainian people and unprovoked war and so i think the focus is justifiably on the fight being out by the ukrainian people and the best way is to offer putin a face saving off ramp from the illegal war? >> yes. i don't want to romanticize the ukrainians but they every outnubbed in every weapons group by 10 to 1. the russian weaponry is much more sophisticated. i don't care how brave they are. it is not a fight to win in the long run and to save li...

There are orphans that have been taken out of the war zone. joining our coverage, john sipher. also joining us, jim townsend, former deputy assistant defense secretary for nato and europe during the obama administration. with me onset is a steady wingman these days, rick stengel, former top state department official and a an msnbc political analyst. john sipher, my question is for you. does putin care when he sees ukrainian orphans on television, or does that make him happy? >> john sipher, we got to fix your audio. we can't hear you. >> i'm sorry about that. >> there we are. start over. >> it...