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What we see is simply a bunch of old, to use a 1th century word, a bunch of toadies in service to a charlatan, in my view. >> i'm curious, chris, i'm not looking for a specific name. but who leaks this stuff? who is in a cabinet meeting that's going to say i don't like what was said, we're going to get this out there. or they think they're doing something to support this white house. there's cabinet secretaries are, they the ones doing the leaking? are their aides or assistants? who is doing this? >> leaks are inevitable in every white house, they happen all the time. who wouldn't want to leak...

War hero and because of that worked he could attack him despite him dying of cancer. there is no point at which this man will have any shred of decency or convy a shred of decency in the white house. the fish rots from the head. everybody in that white house takes their cues the way they treat people in the disrespect with which they treat people from the president of the united states. >> susan, it's interesting, because it won be a nice thing to say about anybody. doesn't matter because they're dying. it's uniquely unusual because of the disrespect the president has shone john campaign. nico...

Brief moment, give an on surd benefit of the doubt and say this was taken out of context. this was said in jest. what does it say about the environment in the white house right now? that that was said and then it was leaked out? >> well, certainly, people have described it as toxic and no doubt it appears to be. >> it's worrisome. >> it's entirely worrisome. listen, on its face, the comment that was made by this young woman, i mean, should prompt a firing. you know, and unfortunately, you know, to put it in rather blunt, inarticulate terms, the fish rots from the head, as they like to say. >> ...

A leaked staff meeting. >> for more, i'm joined by elise jordan and msnbc political analyst and former aide to president george w. bush. thank you both. well, i was working at the white house, too, but let me ask you about this, fish rots from the top. what do you make of that kind of comment in passing? one person didn't like it, because they ratted her out, but does somebody having the -- making a statement like that in a white house meeting? what do you make of that, elise? >> it all stems from the top, chris. this is a president who has shown himself repeatedly to have an unparalleled abil...

Charlie sykes, and caroline polisi. coming up, that cruel mark made by a white house aide about senator mccain. the white house refuses to apologize for that comment and mccain's family is hitting back. but in a white house where anything goes, that awful kind of talk starts right -- don't you think -- at the top where the fish rots. and conservative columnist george f. willis says donald trump isn't the worst person in the trump administration, his vice president is. coming up, george will makes his case right here on "hardball." and trump might talk about draining the swamp, but his wo...