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bar. it is roughly around the odds of will there be another commercial break on the news? almost certainly there will be, although every so often you could go a couple hours and go where you don't get one but this is a low bar and likely you can achieve probable cause if you have evidence, because there are people, again, probable cause is a standard just to remind everyone and katie you could break it down for any arrest, in other words, without a grand jury process in a different situation they catch someone, they say, you are holding the tv outside the store, probable cause of arrest. later you say, i have a receipt. okay, and now you're not guilty. but it doesn't take much in our wheels of justice to get probable cause and give us that breakdown before we go. >> not only does it not take a lot for that but everybody knows that saying, you could indict a ham sandwich. a grand jury could indict a ham sandwich. why? because the process is skewed.

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former president now is continuing to stand by what he first announced this weekend, he expects to be indicted. law enforcement are bracing for that possibility without confirming that it's coming, or any protester violence that could come, preparations include perimeter security around manhattan criminal court, several hundred additional officers ready to be on hand for protests. i want to be careful and clear in what we are referring to, the former president called for something that "the new york times" reported this way, quote, mr. trump's post on saturday urging his supporters to protest and reclaim the nation carried unmistakable echos of the incendiary messages he posted weeks before the attack on the capitol. amidst those echos the associated press reports that perhaps this time may be different than last, noting that according may be different than last noting that according to their counting, quote, this generated mostly muted reactions from supporters, even some of his most ardent loyalists dismissing the idea as a waste of time or even, quote,

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people will see him as basically what, being kind of in common cause with trump's foes which they hate. >> right, and he can't align himself too closely with trump because he's going after the trump voters. the other thing that he did i thought that was a little strange, i think he mentioned the word -- the name george soros as many times as he mentioned weaponization, soros controlled prosecutor, soros controlled lawyers. that also is not a broadly -- it's anti-semitic for one thing. >> do you think he's appealing to that kind of trope? >> 100%. >> yeah, charlie, i want you to comment on all of the above and i'll mention in the spirit of fact-checking, if one has a theory that this type of problem for donald trump legally is only because of this particular prosecutor, right, you'd have to deal with the fact that he's got two federal probes going, he's got a probe in georgia. he had the mueller probe whatever people think of it overseen by bob mueller a

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but including in georgia. and at the federal level. so it would be kind of astounding to all of a sudden a half century later decide they're unconstitutional because they're inconvenience. >> hmm. yeah. all fair points. greg, on the ground there i will say that it was certainly sun usual to have this many grand jurors speaking out. and this filing, again, to the points i think all three of you have referred to, maybe for other public reasons, raises this point. in truth, if you want to get into it, and we've got time, let's get into it, there are more permissive rules on what grand jurors can say in this jurisdiction than in other parts of the country. if you go to school it's called federalism. rules my differ depending on where you are. so those are the rules. having said that, in fairness to mr. trump and the lawyers that he's -- are making this point, it certainly created some spectacle if not more to see all this stuff and all these folks speaking out even before this case was resolved. here for example is some of the

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a witness if i'm going to use this witness. no question. >> okay. so that's very important. by the way, as we've mentioned, mr. cohen is appearing here tonight. he will be abling to speak for himself and rebut any of it, as is only fair. but as you mentioned there's a legally valid part of this which is that taken together especially if there's other evidence that the office you used to work in, you were civil at sdny, they had this and thought this complicate it, that according to mr. costello the current grand jury is not seeing all that. nor need they legally. but sooner or later that's the stuff that comes out. all of that may lead to undercutting mr. cohen. also, this is the thing about litigating deliberate secrecy agreements. it's also possible that the very underlying secrecy that mr. cohen was executing on behalf of mr. trump meant as mr. tack pooeno said to me last week, of course it's not true. it meant that sometimes you keep secret or mislead about items because that's the nature of the

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you may be be thinking about doing. >> rick? >> yeah, i think -- i mean, frank is right. the new york city intelligence is really high and good. it was beefed up after 9/11. i saw that the young republican club of new york was going to protest. i'm not too worried about that. i think what we have to be worried about are these extralegal groups, the qanon groups, the illegal militias, the proud boys. but i trust the new york pd to police them. trump is not popular in new york city. he got 22% of the vote in 2020. but i do want to say one thing, and i would commend you for being so careful about this. the thing we have to be careful about is letting trump shape the narrative and manipulate it, which he has been doing. all of this drama about a possible indictment on tuesday. where does that come from? that comes from donald trump. his incendiary speech as "the new york times" said is getting us all worked up about this. we have to be careful not to

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to know. >> got it. >> much less melania trump. >> got it. thank you. >> just to be clear, did he ever specifically tell you that donald trump does not know about this? >> yes. absolutely. he said that. >> he said that? >> that's what he said at the time. is it true? i don't know. >> [ inaudible question ]. >> but i had to force that into an answer. they were getting upset because they asked me a limited question based on one of these six e-mails and i would volunteer information i thought the grand jury needed to hear. >> are you being asked to come back? >> i don't think so. i think this is it. we were there from maybe 2:15 to what, about 4:50? >> yeah. >> thank you. >> i have a statement here which i'll hand out to whoever wants it. >> thank you. >> okay? >> we've been listening to a man who says he was advising michael cohen but now can speak freely because he says michael cohen waived any attorney-client privilege. that man is bob costello. we're going to break down what

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"weaponization." >> hey. >> particularly by the folks on the right. in this particular indication when a district attorney is a weaponized version he's prosecuting people who violated the law. depression must have said it a million times. he is triangulating between the pro-trump folks and the folks who are saying let the course play it out. he in his candidacy, he's actually going for trump voters, so he doesn't want to alienate them. he warrants to pick up some other people. it's a delicate, surgical maneuver there and i'm sure it's guaranteed no the to please anybody. >> right. well, as you say, i mean, this goes to how credibly the rest of the country sees ron desantis, he certainly has been effective at building his name up, he sort of supercharged himself in florida and started with a narrow initial statewide election and then improved on that so down there, they think he's a tough guy, right, whatever that means to the gop but you're saying if he plays this too hard against trump,

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if you're being honest, the process is skewed in the proceeding in favor of the prosecution because defense doesn't get up there and is not cross-examining witnesses but to asha's point, you know, the corroboration that's objective, that's not michael cohen or kellyanne conway or others that appeared but the documents and the theory is the falsification of record, the payments to reimburse michael cohen was booked as legal fees but there were no legal services provided. that's black and white. there's no retainer agreement. if you look at the actual physical documents and this goes to susanne's point as well there will be a paper trail that can implicate people along the way including donald trump. costello is not so much the defense for trump but pore to go after michael cohen and it's that relationship between costello and michael that's important. michael says there was zero attorney/client relationship. he was never being represented but in 2019 he waived

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that's what he says. then you have his lawyers down in georgia attacking a case where, and this is important, he hasn't been charged at all. so that itself is a little unusual. they filed a motion attacking the atlanta d.a.'s basically probe and report up to this point. so that's the first official filing in a way by trump's team in the probe. we've heard from his lawyers. we know they're out there. but this is drawing questions about why they're doing it right now. the new filing is donald trump basically trying to have his lawyers move in that probe. for what exact reasons only they know. but their argument is that this whole thing has been unfair. they take about 50 pages, plus 400 pages of other exhibits and evidence, to argue that the special grand jury is basically tainted and unconstitutional, and they say that thus the d.a. should be disqualified from any further investigation or prosecution in this matter. they say the d.a. has been political. one section pulls, for example,

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