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Use signer mechanisms on critical infrastructure. you could count in that our lector call mechanisms, you could count the power grid, our financial infrastructure and military systems that now defend on networked capabilities. the other thing that's essentially constant signer probing, espionage, gathering of illicit information, which isn't per se an attack. when it comes to the former, direct attacks on critical infrastructure, there's not really a kind of beat the russians at their own game solution. this is something where at the end of the day, and we've known this for decades going back ...

But on the cyber security issue, i don't think that's one of them. >> matthew, does it make any sense that the u.s. would want to work with russia on cyber security and do you see president trump's meeting with vladamir putin as the president standing up on the issue of hacking? >> so i think the problem with this general term of cyber security is that it lumps two things together. one is attacks that happened to use signer mechanisms on critical infrastructure. you could count in that our lector call mechanisms, you could count the power grid, our financial infrastructure and military systems...