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Use signer mechanisms on critical infrastructure. you could count in that our lector call mechanisms, you could count the power grid, our financial infrastructure and military systems that now defend on networked capabilities. the other thing that's essentially constant signer probing, espionage, gathering of illicit information, which isn't per se an attack. when it comes to the former, direct attacks on critical infrastructure, there's not really a kind of beat the russians at their own game solution. this is something where at the end of the day, and we've known this for decades going back ...

Crack pots. that's why you always bring someone else along to see what kind of crazy stuff they might say. >> brian lanza, to counter that, though, i've seen quotes from donald trump, jr., talking about the difficulty of doing business in russia. and one of the problems is, you never know who you're meeting with and you never know their agenda. he's savvy enough, to jason's point, but he knew enough about russia to know that it's kind of a murky area and you don't know who you're meeting with. >> i don't think it's murky. he had a casual acquaintance, somebody said i want you to meet somebody ...

Information about your opponent, of course you're going to grab someone else. the reality is there weren't a bunch of junior staffers or other people. so he probably grabbed whoever the closest folks were to him and pulled them in. so the most honest answer is the most direct and straightforward one. >> it's not like he's in a mcdonald's and someone comes up and says i have this information. this was through a contact who worked on the miss universe pageant in russia. so there must have been an e-mail or phone confidence wen d.o. donald trump, jr. and this person with an explanation of yeah, t...

Going to bat for the kremlin and inviting the proffering of negative information about hillary clinton. so i think that's why it is so substantial. at the very least, it suggests that at the highest levels of the campaign, they were okay with sitting down with someone like that. even if this meeting didn't get that kind of information. >> anderson, you just said to ryan, you said, well, he didn't know her name, but he invited paul manafort and jared kushner in a meeting. this is what is so crucial. by his own admission, he knew what the context of the meeting was. he has said he knew he was go...

Went nowhere, but had to listen. i'm keeping them honest before getting further into the meat of the story, there's ethics professionals, most notably republicans who say no, he didn't have to listen. richard painter joins us later, who tweeted, when a russian agent calls to off a dirt, a loyal american will call the fbi. now, to be accurate and fair, we don't know that the russian lawyer trump jr. met with is a russian agent, only that she was on the fbi's radar and has ties to vladamir putin. cnn has not been able to independently verify that. she does represent the russians that want the sa...