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But on the cyber security issue, i don't think that's one of them. >> matthew, does it make any sense that the u.s. would want to work with russia on cyber security and do you see president trump's meeting with vladamir putin as the president standing up on the issue of hacking? >> so i think the problem with this general term of cyber security is that it lumps two things together. one is attacks that happened to use signer mechanisms on critical infrastructure. you could count in that our lector call mechanisms, you could count the power grid, our financial infrastructure and military systems...

Mcdonald's and someone comes up and says i have this information. this was through a contact who worked on the miss universe pageant in russia. so there must have been an e-mail or phone confidence wen donald trump, jr. and this person with an explanation of yeah, there is this attorney with russia. he must have known to some degree, no? >> well, to someone who has maybe worked on a number of campaigns and be a part of this over the past 20 years of campaigns that i've done, i can't think of a single campaign where i didn't have someone approach the campaign and say, we have information on you...

Someone else along to see what kind of crazy stuff they might say. >> brian lanza, to counter that, though, i've seen quotes from donald trump, jr., talking about the difficulty of doing business in russia. and one of the problems is, you never know who you're meeting with and you never know their agenda. he's savvy enough, to jason's point, but he knew enough about russia to know that it's kind of a murky area and you don't know who you're meeting with. >> i don't think it's murky. he had a casual acquaintance, somebody said i want you to meet somebody that has information you might want to h...

Richard painter joins us later, who tweeted, when a russian agent calls to off a dirt, a loyal american will call the fbi. now, to be accurate and fair, we don't know that the russian lawyer trump jr. met with is a russian agent, only that she was on the fbi's radar and has ties to vladamir putin. cnn has not been able to independently verify that. she does represent the russians that want the sanctions against russia lifted. a a number of former campaign managers say that not all campaigns do this. today, an episode was counted when someone sent the gore people information and the gore people...

Substantial. at the very least, it suggests that at the highest levels of the campaign, they were okay with sitting down with someone like that. even if this meeting didn't get that kind of information. >> anderson, you just said to ryan, you said, well, he didn't know her name, but he invited paul manafort and jared kushner in a meeting. this is what is so crucial. by his own admission, he knew what the context of the meeting was. he has said he knew he was going into a meeting to get negative information about hillary clinton there this russian. so also i think paul manafort and jared kushne...