They were heatedly debated. it was strongly felt by many in the agency the information obtained under duress from enhanced interrogation from torture was spurious, couldn't be relied on and in fact, all those were formerly recalled. that's a big deal in the intelligence community. you want to expunge it from the record as unreliable. that's what the record is the case. >> gary, it's interesting. all along, there was testimony from cia officials, public testimonies saying, look. the folks doing these techniques whether you call them torture or enhanced interrogation techniques, they're carefull...