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I'm sorry, jonathan, we can't afford to see that happen again after all of the beautiful call for democracy that is happening in the middle east. it's absolutely about foreign policy. >> we need to be clear, gary, should we be buying our friends? because some of them haven't been good friends to us. >> we've been doing it for years and i read all kinds of stories throughout the years of the billions and billions of dollars that have been lost by giving it to dictators around the world and the money just poofs into thin air. i'm not a big fan of that. my bigger issue right now is this is a fisc...

Be encouraging me to take money out because the taxes and withdrawal fees, they'd be making money. >> there was a bigger bottom line here. >> it doesn't matter. the government can design all kinds of programs. we don't have to do it. you're asking us to be forced to do it. that's the difference. >> you're not forced to do a 401(k). >> gary, go ahead and jump in. >> the bigger bottom line here is these are people that have been failures at handling of money and they're trying to tell us what to do with our money. it's like bernie madoff trying to tell me how to manage my client's money. that's ...

Of america. this is your retirement savings. we have a serious problem in what people will need between what they will need and what they will have saved. there's a $6.6 trillion gap that is developing and growing. >> do you know how many people -- the reason that number keeps going up is because we are still in a recession here and if that money were not available to many people, they couldn't pay bills. they couldn't have fed their kids. those loans came in handy. to wayne's point, it's my money. i use it the way i want to use it. if i opt to pay withdrawal penalties and extra taxes, that's ...

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