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Take rhetoric seriously. >> if every bit of diplomacy is appeasement, we must be as a people in perpetual war. luckily, americans have largely rejected that world view. but i'm -- paul wolfowitz was the deputy secretary of defense under george w. bush. he joins me now, mr. wolfowitz, my first question to you was given the fact that there was a kind of reformist regime in iran ten years ago during the bush administration, why with respect you guys in the bush administration able to get this deal done a decade ago? >> let me just ask, i take it you think it's a mistake to take osama bin laden's ...

Question s if you concede they're after nuclear weapons, something they simply don't know, i haven't looked at the intelligence, if you -- to not go to war, right, and those two goals are equally important in my mind, then what do you do that doesn't look like this agreement? this agreement to me looks like a pretty good path between those two terrible outcomes. >> make sure you maintain the sanctions t sanctions are obviously biting and obviously hurting and hurting them much more than they're hurting us at all. this regime is shaky, this regime is having trouble at home. another thing i woul...

They are not interested in using sanctions to pressure iran to make a deal. they don't want to make a deal with this regime, they want to overthrow it. it's a crazy position that will lead us once again to war. >> in terms of the american people rejecting it or not buying it, i think we have seen a real sea change in the american people, to use all that rhetoric that was so potent in 2003 has drained out now. >> we have learned the lesson from iraq that perhaps what we had forgotten before that since vietnam. and i think that we are moving into a stage in american life where, which i can't rem...

Have been awed who wrote these ground breaking chronicles, of murderers by the regime. he and many other dissidents say they welcome this, they welcome this deal. there are dissidents in iran. people who oppose the regime who think this deal can give daylight. >> and there are plenty of dissidents who are afraid that this deal is going to letting gitimize is regime. i it's shameful and it's going to come back and haunt us. you don't want a war, i don't want a war. but a bad outcome can lead to a war just as much as too much belligerence.