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>> don't have to call them names. >> they took a powder to illinois rather than vote and do their job. >> i don't know you spoke giddish. union busting. just to reiterate that. i think thed media is reportingt as a budget issue. it's a union busting issue. >> it's not. >> the states are broke republicans when they were elected to office, taking away their collective far banning rights. ant eventually. i didn't interrupt you. >> bill: it is party politics. if you go back and look at the tape of the broadcast last night. we clearly laid out that the give backs were agreed upon by the union and n...

About it, the unions have said they're willing to make cuts. >> there are two issues, one is balancing the budget. with respect to the give backs, they have said we'll give you those give backs, the dollars and sense. but they said, we don't agree with you, that we should be dessert phied and lose our capacity to negotiate. >> the claktive bargaining agreement. the governor should have declared victory on the financial side. and i disagree with him, but he will have the votes to win it it. >> he can still go after collective bargaining rights six months down the road? >> absolutely. >> he's gr...

Have fiscal problems. >> can i say something? this is really a misperception of what is the issue driving states into bankruptcy. yes, there are pensioner issues that are significant. there are issues of wage levels that have to be dealt with. the crisis for states is a revenue crisis, we have had the worst recession/depression since '29, revenues are down 15%. all of the states costs are fixed costs, and so when you have that gap, you have a crisis, this is not suddenly the civil service workers are being paid so much more than they were two years ago, when states were doing fine. let's not c...

Have that gap, you have a crisis, this is not suddenly the civil service workers are being paid so much more than they were two years ago, when states were doing fine. let's not confuse the issue, i disagree about union busting, he wants to do it, he may have the votes for it. >> this is about the budget? >> no, i don't buy that. the unions have agreed with him on the give backs, this is prospectively as ed said, who will have how much power in the politics of wisconsin. >> they have used the power in states and nationally, to basically go try to alter the game. your successor patterson is tot...

Have that gap, you have a crisis, this is not suddenly the civil service workers are being paid so much more than they were two years ago, when states were doing fine. let's not confuse the issue, i disagree about union busting, he wants to do it, he may have the votes for it. that is not why -- >> this is about the budget? >> no, i don't buy that. the unions have agreed with him on the give backs, this is prospectively as ed said, who will have how much power in the politics of wisconsin. >> they have used the power in states and nationally, to basically go try to alter the game. your success...