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The end of the program. joining me are two experts. daniel hoffman, a station chief who served five years in moscow, currently works as a vice president of the consulting group spg. john brownlee is a former u.s. attorney served as the justice department for a decade and now he runs the white collar political defense for holland & knight. he represented virginia governor bob mcdonald. daniel, does any operation like this get carried out without the knowledge, without the oversight of vladimir putin? >> no, this is a kremlin operation and i would describe it as a hybrid operation. in other word...

Counsel robert mueller? i'll let you know the result at the end of this program. joining me now, two experts with perfect backgrounds for this story. daniel hoffman, retired cia station chief who served five years in moscow, currently works as a vice president of the consulting group spg. and john brownly is former u.s. attorney, served at the justice department for a decade, now he runs the white collar criminal defense for the washington firm of holland and knight. he represented virginia governor bob mcdonnell. let me begin with you, daniel. does any operation like this get carried out with...