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We've reported that in the past that david pecker was helpful to the investigation, another person granted immunity earlier on, and that -- to parse our way through the terms when you're granted you can come in and the statements you give to prosecutors or federal agents can't be used against you so it's like a momentary confession, if you will, they continue come back and use those again in a grand jury proceeding or perhaps in a criminal case. both weiselberg and pecker were given those immunity agreements and basically i'm told that pecker was very helpful in this investigation as far as pr...

Through civil procedure, right, danny? >> that's right. >> it's possible that he gets a pardon and stays out of the federal clink, but he will be broke in the end. >> the assets are essentially gone. >> yeah. >> he is not getting those back, even if he gets pardoned. >> talk about -- manafort would have had to have offered mueller something to get the plea deal in the first place. what is it that he would have offered and now he's saying he's lying about? in other words, i mean, i think there is a strategy of kill the alligator that's closest to the boat for mueller. but what is it that he off...

You it is not uncommon for them to think they can put one over on the government. to lie, not tell the whole truth. they've been scamming people all their lives. paul manafort was a career criminal according to the charges he's pled guilty to. to think he maybe could have gone in and told the partial truth not realizing mueller knows everything. that's one scenario. the other nehr yo as you mentioned, people are wondering whether some message was conveyed to paul manafort dangling a pardon in front of him. it doesn't make sense, if he was going for a pardon, he wouldn't have pled guilty and en...

Former prosecutors will tell you it is not uncommon for them to think they can put one over on the government. to lie, not tell the whole truth. they've been scamming people all their lives. paul manafort was a career criminal according to the charges he's pled guilty to. to think he maybe could have gone in and told the partial truth not realizing mueller knows everything. that's one scenario. the other as you mentioned, people are wondering whether some message was conveyed to paul manafort dangling a pardon in front of him. it doesn't make sense, if he was going for a pardon, he wouldn't ha...

And then stuff that directly implicates the president. >> that is right. the first five counts, that is tax evasion. >> just to be clear, i want to hang a lantern on that. he pleaded today to stealing $4 million from the u.s. government. >> what would the taxes have been on that $4 million. yeah. that is what he did. and then you have another count where he says, and he has pled guilty to, where he lied about his liabilities to a bank in order to get a home equity. you came to me for a loan and i am a bank and i am not going to tell tom about that town home i have, all of these liabilities. so...