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The argument they didn't need us, it's not a great argument. i have to say he is correct, i think the whole story may not be out about this. if you have a built in cynicism about televangelists and, that will shaded the way you look at the spirit i grew up with swaggart and baker, you have this built in skepticism. that kind of informs you. he might be completely innocent, he might be absolutely right. that's why you cannot jump dome i could judge the mob on twitter. it's the new morality and that's inaccurate as every other kind. >> jesse: if trump isn't going to be the villain, the media nee...

The argument they didn't need us, it's not a great argument. i have to say he is correct, i think the whole story may not be out about this. if you have a built in cynicism about televangelists and, that will shaded the way you look at the spirit i grew up with swaggart and baker, you have this built in skepticism. that kind of informs you. he might be completely innocent, he might be absolutely right. that's why you cannot jump dome i could judge the mob on twitter. it's the new morality and that's inaccurate as every other kind. >> jesse: if trump isn't going to be the villain, the media nee...

Point myself. >> why is someone sitting on a bunch of money a job creator? not even working? why is capital gains a job -- let me get back to john this. on does capital gains -- pay nothing taxes from making money, how does that help stimulate the economy more than that guy working in the mines digging up coal or whatever? >> of course, it doesn't. so many of these theories that he's -- buys into have been proven not to work. one of the problems that he -- he's got, i have known paul a long time, is that he's fascinated by economic theory. some of which are 100 years old, when you didn't have ...

Guy rich, he puts his money in a tax haven overseas and if he has any extra, he opens a factory in china. >> is this guy a fiscal hawk or does he simply spend money at liberty when he likes the project? whether it's prescription drug, t.a.r.p. of bailout of rich people, bailout of corporations or banks. it seems like ryan only started worrying about paying for things since obama's been elected president. under w., he never worried about the price tag. what do we make of that, michael? just a simple hypocrisy of a guy who will spend any nickel as long as it's designated as good spending by w., ...

Not even working? why is capital gains a job -- back to john on this. how does that help stimulate the economy more than that guy working in the mines digging up coal or whatever? >> well of course it doesn't and so many of these theorys that paul ryan buys into and he's a big, big fan of austrian economists from 30 years ago, 40 years ago. many of the theorys he buys into have been proven not to work and one of the problems that he's got and i've known paul for a long time, is that he's fascinated by economic theory, some of which are 100 years old, when you didn't have globalization and you ...