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Choose between working or taking care of themselves. >> and so if the joe biden enters the race, who does he take away from? hillary clinton or bernie sanders? >> i think hillary clinton. >> and you recommend him to enter the election? >> yes, i have run into him several times. yes. and in terms of the only systemic change that is needed, bernie sanders is is the only guy able to do it, who is not beholden to the wall street and the other corporate interests, and he is the only guy running a peopl people-powered campaign. he has refused a pac. i mean, i have had, i have had friends of mine who...

At the top of fox, but might be the man at the top of the republican party. but a new biography is making waves at fox, which is the competition. the book is "the loudest voice in the room," how the bombastic roger ailes built fox news and invaded the country. now a prime-time exclusive. gabe sherman, you've certainly rocked a a few boats and ruffled a few feathers with this book. are you surprised, or is it exactly what you expected? >> thanks for having me. anyone who's covered roger ailes knows he's the most combative man in the american media. and going into this, i knew it was going to be...

Brutal reporting experience of my career. >> tell me, ways the point of the book? and why should we take roger ailes so seriously? why is he not just a very clever guy running a very successful cable news show, which actually is watched by 3 million or say, 315 million americans. why put him on a pedestal of power? >> that's a great, fascinating question. and it gets to the heart of this book. the reason i reported this book is that roger ailes speaks to every single american, whether they watch fox or not. his ability to frame the news and drive a message is so powerful through fox that he is...