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of clean up the mess. what about him? >> he is certainly one of the ones that people are talking about. he's a theologian, he's in the tradition of john paul and benedict. we wouldn't see any radical change under him. on the other hand, he isn't part of the curia. that's why people look upon him as an italian who could come in and clean up the mess. and so he's kind of a threat to the people in the curia. >> cardinal scherer is seen as an insider and being supported by those inside the curia. what about him? i'm hearing he's actually kind of losing momentum. >> well, he, of course, is someone who actually worked in the curia. not in a very high position. it was a low position in the congregation for bishops. then he went back to brazil and became the archbishop and cardinal. he has a little bit of knowledge of the vatican and some people think, well, he'll work with the people who are there. but on the other hand, he might have the knowledge, the inside knowledge to be able to go in and clean it up. so he might appeal to both sides