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Afghanistan and iraq. >> sure. >> i'm not sure of the getting nothing out of it is the right take away. >> of course not. and that sound you heard off camera was secretary of defense jim mattis' head exploding when he heard the president talk about we're going to immediately pull out of syria and roll out that extremely populous vision. look, what we do when we engage overseas, ali, is create a network of allies, partners and friends and we need that, otherwise we are going to see iran in that region align with russia and believe me, they will take the oil. they'll take the oil of saudi arabia...

Simulation. >> we do it with law enforcement and video training. you don't see it in ranger school but integral part of our training make killing response part of training. we have to do it. healthy people have to be trained to do and the video games do the same things to the kids. >> laura: ben, what i think about this, science or not, for young children to continually see images of heads exploding, chests opening up, you talked about the immorality of all of this. whether it's constitutional or not constitutional, maybe it as a societal we have to talk about what numbing ourselves to this ve...

Simulation. >> we do it with law enforcement and video training. you don't see it in ranger school but integral part of our training make killing response part of training. we have to do it. healthy people have to be trained to do and the video games do the same things to the kids. >> laura: ben, what i think about this, science or not, for young children to continually see images of heads exploding, chests opening up, you talked about the immorality of all of this. whether it's constitutional or not constitutional, maybe it as a societal we have to talk about what numbing ourselves to this ve...

What would china's involvement be will? >> reporter: john we know china certainly has been an internet supporter of north korea in the sense they have much more massive infrastructure here than they do in pyongyang. north korea still relies on chinese servers to connect to the internet. u.s. law enforcement says as orchestrating this attack they believe north korea is the only nation involved. as far as the technical reliance. >> and what are they saying about president obama and what about the sony hacking? >> reporter: well you know north korea was so indignant about the portrayal of their l...

>> back now with jay carney and carl bernstein. carl, what were they thinking? sony? >> i don't know. i don't know what they were thinking. it seems to me that they had china or russia made a movie that, that its biggest studio put out a movie, showed obama's head exploding and guts flying out. i think it would be reprehensible the way we view it. it doesn't show great judgment. i ser tonalcertainly believe in right to do it. part of the difficulty here. jay? >> we need to uphold their right. >> i think sony is clearly on its heels, they have been, laid to waste digitally by the hacker attack....