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Jim haggerty his press secretary stopped him and there was an issue in the news. he said, mr. president, are you sure you know what you want to say, he said, don't worry, jim, i'll go out and confuse them. i don't think this was that. i don't think this was tactical. so western style liberalism is really an enlightenment era or phenomena. it goes back to the 17th century, the 18th century, the rule of law, centrality of the individual. the role that free will and individual sovereignty plays as opposed to orders that are run by hereditary authority and really superstition as well. popes, prela...

Those -- that battle flag came back as a result of the dixiecrat campaign of strom thurmond in 1948 and defiance to the school integration decisions in the '50s. so you always have to judge what was behind the adoption of a symbol. and that's what happened with those monuments. the washington, jefferson versus lee, stonewall jackson question i think is clear, actually. washington and jefferson were flawed human beings. but they were nation builders. they were attempting to start something new in human affairs. they wanted to break the grip of hereditary authority, both in terms of monarchy and...