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You. moing -- joining me now is van jones. the president has had a checked past when it comes to race and justice this. back and forth and his targeting of joe biden and what is really a vulnerability, what do you think about this? >> well, look, politicians play politics and that's interesting, but for me, let's just take a step back. this is historic. we now have the president of the united states and the democratic front-runner competing on who can be the best on criminal justice reform. for my entire adult life the parties have been racing who can put the most in prison and be the toughest...

Issue when he's trying to explain his record? >> of course, this was 25 years ago. we were able to bring different views together in a major crime bill. the challenge was very close to the election when we finally passed it, but it included many important provisions for its time, and we -- it was a compromise. there were a lot of good things in the bill. there were things that turned out not to would be the way we wanted to. that's why we've changed the law enforcement the first step that passed in this past congress was a very good beginning to modify some. provisions that need to be modified...

Technical mountain climber. you're saying it's possible for somebody with relatively little experience, with enough money to have guides, sherpas, who essentially lead them up the mountain. >> correct. and that's something they think they can do but there's also people that are affected by that. so you have the sherpa, who are trying to help those people up the mountain. but then you have the other expeditions of experienced climbers who are also there, and everybody is on that single rope going up hillary step. >> so explain what hillary step is. the video we've seen is this long line of peop...

Allowed it to go into shefect. on the other hand, they did uphold a lower court opinion that being blocked a controversial position, they can -- what we really saw here is the far right of the bench and the far left. they drew their battle lines. we saw justice clarence thomas saying, look, i understand what the court did today. i agreed. maybe in issue on that more restrictive law has to perk logan airport a little bit in the lower courts, but the supreme court can't wait forever. none of the other conservatives joined him on that and then we saw ruth bader ginsburg and justice sotomayor who ...

That, but fundamentally you've got is a historic watershed that's showing up in the presidential election. both party trying to move. in the direction of reform. here's reality. trump can say was better than the obama administration on legislation because he passed the first step back. and he's worse than the obama administration saying that the department of justice under trump has began backwards, has not implemented the first stem act well enough so trump can be strong and say i'm better than you on legislation. biden can say i was better than you at administration, so they both have streng...