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Then over the last few ye years, very quickly the baton was passed against to psychopharmacology. so a nuanced conversation was lost regarding the nature of human despair. regarding the real phenomenon of human despair. this is what i've talked about. >> right. but you have used the word numb many times and mask. you said, in fact, feds say one in ten americans on antidepressants. not a good sign. this is not a time in american history for any of us to be numbing our pain if you're on an antidepressant you're not numbing pain, you're trying to feel again. >> some people would argue that. for m...

Brand, i think you called clinical depression such a scam. then you back tracked with "the new york times" saying you regretted saying that but went on to say and i'm quoting. it's not always such a scam at all. it does seem like, again, you're suggesting that clinical depression is a scam. >> no. do you want to let me, like, tell you what i think? i'll be glad to do that. >> yeah. >> what i believe is when we go through these issue of normal human despair. when we go through a divorce, when we have a pain over a breakup, when someone we love has died, when we have a financial loss or failure....

Clinical depression such a scam. and then you backtracked with "the new york times" saying you regretted saying that, but you went on to say and i'm quoting, "it's not always such a scam at all." it does seem like, again, you're suggesting that clinical depression is a scam. >> no. do you want to let me -- do you want me to tell you what i think? i'd be glad to do that. what i believe is when we go through these issues of normal human despair, when we go through a divorce, when we have a pain over a breakup, when someone that we love has died, when we have been through a financial loss or fail...

And i know there are some people who say you're contributing to that stigma by repeatedly saying that antidepressant drugs, you've used the word numb or mask you. isn't the fact that depression numbs you and masks you and while some drugs have dangerous side effects, not all drugs numb you or mask you. and telling a seriously depressed person that taking an antidepressant is they're going to be numbed isn't that not a good message. >> i think that would be a not good message. that's just never the way i've spoken. and it's a complete mischaracterization of my commentary. what i've talked about...

Say that you're actually contributing to that stigma by repeatedly saying that antidepressant drugs -- you've used the word numb or mask you. isn't the fact that depression numbs you and masks you while some drugs have dangers and side effects, not all drugs numb you or mask you and telling a seriously depressed person to take an antidepressant is going to be numbed, is that not a good message? >> i think that would be a not good message and i think i've never given that message. that's just never the way i've spoken and it is a complete mischaracterization of my commentary. what i've talked a...