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Uncorrupted, reliable memory. and research again is very clear on the fragility of human memory under the best circumstances. imagine introduces waterboard or the anxiety that comes from continued threats of sleep deprivation. even if somebody wished to provide information, their ability to do so is severely undermined. >> and in this evaluation of the information that they would be getting from waterboarding, if they're saying, if the bush administration is saying, look, we just found out in effect last sunday what the verdict is on torture because we found out that it led to eventually osama...

What's more important is the fundamentalal objective is to get access to an individual's uncorrupted, reliable memory. and research again is very clear on the fragility of human memory under the best circumstances. imagine introduces waterboard or the anxiety that comes from continued threats of sleep deprivation. even if somebody wished to provide information, their ability to do so is severely undermined. >> and in this evaluation of the information that they would be getting from waterboarding, if they're saying, if the bush administration is saying, look, we just found out in effect last s...

Stop. >> that's correct. what's more important is the fundamentalal objective is to get access to an individual's uncorrupted, reliable memory. and research again is very clear on the fragility of human memory under the best circumstances. imagine introduces werboard or the anxiety that comes from continued threats of sleep deprivation. even if somebody wished to provide information, their ability to do so is severely undermined. >> and in this evaluation of the information that they would be getting from waterboarding, if they're saying, if the bush administration is saying, look, we just fou...

>> don't you accept the techniques have been vindicated by the death of bin laden? >> not at all. i think we've tried to dig too deeply into the trivia of the event and losing the grand vision behind this. interrogation, this is what your listeners need to understand and perhaps they're misled by the television portrayals, interrogation is always about access to somebody's uncorrupted and reliable memory. it's science. it's not art. and what we know about the human memory is that intrapersonal, environmental, intrapersonal stressors, which water board would be included that that subset, will d...

Told me that. not a word. that's called the washington two-step. that's where you get set up, somebody passes information, and out you go. in the face of facing cancer, fighting the democratic leadership -- by the way, i'm a proud democrat. i'm a democrat in a place where we don't have democrats. it's not like i'm in new york city. i'm in rural america where the rubber hits the road. one of the first democrats to be elected in my congressional district in human memory. and there the people of my district, by the way, overwhelmingly didn't want me to resign. but i can't. i can't stay and fight ...