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So we're seeing case rates, hospitalizations and deaths dropping, but we've been here before. can we ever get past this as long as people refuse vaccines? >> well, there's really one very important number we must never forget. there are currently 65 million americans who are not vaccinated who could be right now based on recommendations. they are more than enough human wood for this coronavirus forest fire to keep burning. we will see new surges in the future just as we've seen from the beginning of the pandemic, we see these big case increases that last anywhere from one to four months, and t...

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We're seeing hospitals fill up, schools having to shut down days after opening. where are we right now and where are we headed? >> first of all we shouldn't have been surprised by this situation. i realize that there was a time where case numbers were very low and people assumed the pandemic had ended in the united states. we had vaccine coming. but let me just remind you that we have over 90 million americans today who are eligible to be vaccinated who have not. that's more than enough human wood out there for this coronavirus forest fire to burn. so this particular surge we're in right now r...

Political analyst and director of the center for infectious disease research and policy at the university of minnesota. doctor, let me begin with you. i want to show you the cover of usa today for this weekend. it says we are failing one another. this is america's fourth covid-19 surge. it didn't have to happen. it didn't have to happen but what do we do about it now? doctor, how do we -- how do you see this playing out over the next weeks and months when we are fundamentally opposed between those who believe in masks and vaccines and those who not want to wear them? >> the most important mess...