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had simply drifted off course. sally is here next. now on bbc news, it's time for hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. viktor 0rban can make a strong claim to be europe's most successful leader. after four consecutive election victories, he's admired by cultural conservatives and nationalists from moscow to washington. he wins elections, yes — but is he a democrat or has he subverted democracy and undermined the cause of freedom — notjust in hungary, but across the eu? well, my guest, zsuzsanna szelenyi, was his ally in the early days of the fidesz party. now she is...

of freedom — notjust in hungary, but across the eu? well, my guest, zsuzsanna szelenyi, was his ally in the early days of the fidesz party. now she is an arch—critic. but has orban found a politicalformula — illiberal democracy — for which his opponents have no answer? zsuzsanna szelenyi, welcome to hardtalk. thank you for inviting me. it's a pleasure to have you on the show. when you look at your home country, hungary, today, in terms of its politics, its political culture, what do you see? well, hungary is in trouble. this is what i see first. it is diverting for a track wh...

from mr reznikov who hasn't been personally implicated in the procurement scandal involving the purchase of rations at inflated prices. now on bbc news, hardtalk. welcome to hardtalk. i'm stephen sackur. viktor orban can make a strong claim to be europe's most successful leader. after four consecutive election victories, he's admired by cultural conservatives and nationalists from moscow to washington. he wins elections, yes — but is he a democrat or has he subverted democracy and undermined the cause of freedom — notjust in hungary, but across the eu? well, my guest, zsuzsanna s...

corrupt and should not be trusted. what would that look like? that level of corruption? well, imagine that the trump administration had made it mandatory for american citizens to buy my pillow. that's one of fox news's biggest advertisers. imagine the administration declared if you didn't rush out and buy at least one my pillow and then at least another booster pillow you would not be allowed to eat out. you couldn't reenter your own country. you couldn't have a paying job. my pillow they told you with a straight face was the very lynch pin of our country's public health system. now ...

advertisers? anyone who do that is obviously pablo escobar level corrupt and should not be trusted. what would that look like? that level of corruption? >> well, imagine that the trump administration had made it mandatory for american citizens to buy mypillow. that's when fox news's biggest advertisers imagined. the administration declared that if you didn't rush out and buy at least one , mypillow and then at least another booster pillow, you may not be allowed to eat out. >> you couldn't reenter your own country. you couldn't have a paying job. mypillow, they told you with a straig...