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Now, that said, i think it is clear that there still is an image problem for the catholic church when it comes to women. there is a perception that this is a patriarchal boys' club. i think one of the challenges facing pope francis and church leaders at other levels is to try to counteract that by in every way they possibly can, putting women forward in meaningful leadership positions so that people can see that the catholic church wants to hear the voice of women. >> we've got to leave it there. ashley, i appreciate you being with us. thank you, john allen and father cutie, as well. coming ...

Example, one quarter of diocese and chancellors -- sort of the ceo position below the bishop, are women. which actually, outperform, say, fortune 500 companies, major law firms, and the military. in terms of the percentage of senior leadership positions that are held by women. now, that said, i think it is clear that there still is an image problem for the catholic church when it comes to women. there is a perception that this is a patriarchal boys' club. i think one of the challenges facing pope francis and church leaders at other levels is to try to counteract that by in every way they possi...

Female. so, you know, i think that women are already playing a huge role in the catholic church. and i think that we can only expect that to continue with this new papacy. >> john, do you see a change in the role of women, in the leadership in the church? >> oh, absolutely. everything short of priestly ordination, obviously. but i think outside that realm. and in other words, if you can get past that, and i know it's hard for a lot of people to get past that. but actually, the catholic church compares relatively well to other institutions. in the united states, for example, one quarter of dioc...

Optimistic are we they are going to get anything done on immigration, let alone, you know, energy reform? >> i think they know there is a -- an image problem and an identity crisis happening. but that's absolutely right. it's not just about this, it's everything after this. this debate is going to be long and drawn out. this is just the start. we're going to move on very soon to talk about the debt ceiling, and it's going to be -- we're going to see the exact same extremism there. we already know there's going to be a huge fight and it's going to be played to the end with the highest stakes. >...

Less relevant to the discourse. only obstructionist is what the party is seeking -- >> what is their plan? >> i don't know, but it's a shame. as someone who believes in progressive ideas, i realize that not having a smart, engaged conservative party, republican party, makes progressives lazy, frankly, and unimaginative, and it's bad for the country. bad for the country -- >> i think i spent a good -- i admitted something last week. don't we all like to go into the booth knowing we have an option play? if the democrats have been blowing it, we give the republicans a shot or the other way around...